Parker’s comments about accepting that the story we’ve been taught about how great America is - is really simply a myth. That helps me understand why I’m so deeply hurt by our country.
It's so disturbing to know that so many Americans bought into the deception that our current president brought forward. But when I look at the dualistic thinking he brought to the table, I also have to look at my own dualisms, and how that sort of thinking on both sides of the aisle has created this division in American politics.
But I think the most important work now is to remember what Fred Rogers mother used to say; "look for the helpers", and to be one. Many conscientious objectors during WW2 worked in hospitals and other places where they could follow their non-violent hearts but also support the good cause.
Thank you, Carrie and Parker…this episode was so powerful and for me, very necessary. You affirmed much of what I feel and I felt safe in this space to allow myself to fully recognize and embrace the hard emotions and realities I have been resisting.
We live on a country road with only 5 neighboring houses. The houses are far enough apart that our interactions are usually just a wave as we walk or drive by. For many years, there was animosity with one neighbor in particular, who burned toxic garbage, drove too fast down the road, used live traps, without checking them often, and other. One year, filled with Christmas spirit I guess, I decided to host an afternoon holiday potluck just for the neighbors on the road. I wasn't sure whether we'd even find anything to talk about. They came at 4:00 and left and 11:30! It set the tone for later conversations about the problems that can arise among neighbors. More importantly, it set up a support network that has has been there as we all face "life"--- collectively: knee replacements, son's divorce, retirement, a car accident, lost keys, broken pipes, in addition to checking to see whether the coffee pot was left on, borrowing the proverbial cup of flour, or watching the house while a neighbor is away. I'm pretty sure our politics are VERY different, but we simply do NOT discuss them. It would be like a magic spell that none of us is willing to break, even by putting up a political sign. Not here--not on this country road where only the neighbors would see it--We are grateful for our neighbors as we all age in place. And we have the Christmas potluck every year--including carols sung around our piano. We even met out in the street in our lawn chairs during Covid. (Not many cars come down this road!)
Thanks Carrie and Parker, I always look forward to your wonderful conversations. Two items struck me as you spoke.
Observation 1 For Carrie… Thanks so much for your music. You said,”at the heart of a song, sometimes we recognise one another because we recognise joy or we recognise grief… at the centre of a song, sometimes we still se one another and we turn to one another and go, uh huh me too. And that, for me, I feel very, a certain kind of privilege with that because we don’t always see that in our media.” You’re too modest and you could have said, “never” instead of “don’t always”. Why? Because it requires presence and that is what struck me.
Your ‘privilege’ echoed with something Nick Cave said to Krista Tippett (On Being Podcast 23 Nov 2023) about his goal to ‘improve matters” by giving space for a ‘transcendent’ experience in his concerts…“I feel that, and it's not me in particular, but any musician, in fact, playing any kind of music, can do something to improve matters. There's that, and then there is, of course, the sort of transcendent element to the communal element, the sort of outpouring, intaking, the sort of circular thing that goes on with an audience of love. Yeah, the way we now know that music actually syncs up breath and heartbeats. (You mean communally) Yeah, that's right… that’s why I spend so much time right up the front with the audience, because I can see them better… it’s quite something to look into the face of a person that's having a transcendent experience is quite something, and especially en masse. And I find that, you know, each time I'm playing and doing a concert, I feel that I'm doing something to help rehabilitate the world, or it's a remedy for the world in some kind of way. And I don't mean that in a high blown kind of way. In fact, it to me is like a small act of kindness too, in the way that we have, that we all have the opportunity to do. But there is also a mysterious and transcendent element to music.” To be able to share the gift of music is to both at the same time offer a ‘mysterious and transcendental’ experience in a blind and deaf world, and do something ‘to help rehabilitate the world’. Both these effects of music require presence and I doubt they can be mediaized. Thank you for your willingness to share your gift.
Observation 2 For Parker… Of course Richard Rohr is right “everything belongs” - the only clothing for the soul divine is joy and woe woven fine (and it always is sewn with a silken thread of joy divine), you can’t have one (joy) without the other (woe)! BUT some things don’t belong & these things come from the unreal worlds which we have created. The fantasy world we create in social media and in which we think we live is an unreal world and this is not among the things that belong in reality. These worlds are turbocharged inventions of our desires and fantasies, a kind of gnostic platonistic imagined reality on steroids which appears real but has no life. When our kids live in the reality they go mad and bad, losing their connection with joy and woe of real life. Wisdom and discernment is sorely needed to help young people reenter and rejoice in the trials and tribulations of real world friends and meet face to face so called enemies (which in an unreal world are to be shot on sight). Deep fakes can only be known as fakes if we know the real.
These comments fit what I read years ago from a nun who advised exactly what Claire wrote. With humble curiosity probe the experiences that led to this belief.
I've been writing in my journal about this very thing after listening to the podcast today. Its been perplexing because we can't just ignore the gap. What I ended up with was something like Jerry Colonna writes about which is people seek love, safety, and belonging and their actions aim to find those three, especially when one or more is missing. Instead of hitting the issue at present head on, which only seems to bring further resistance and violence, what I'm drawn to at the moment is exploring what isn't giving safety for the other person. Often people find belonging in groups of similar views, but are those real? What did that belonging fill a hole of and what was previously missing? And of course love--which relates to the belonging as well. Another tough part though is how then do you foster those conversations to address these behind the issue questions, especially when the other side is violently opposed? I'll continue to turn to wonder there...
Learning how to inquire about the wider story, how they came to their starting point, begins with a frank acknowledgement of my own ignorance of how they, as an individual, got where they are. From that humbled position, I can ask questions that are truly questions, and build that bridge between the other and myself.
Parker’s comments about accepting that the story we’ve been taught about how great America is - is really simply a myth. That helps me understand why I’m so deeply hurt by our country.
Thank you Carrie and Parker for this.
It's so disturbing to know that so many Americans bought into the deception that our current president brought forward. But when I look at the dualistic thinking he brought to the table, I also have to look at my own dualisms, and how that sort of thinking on both sides of the aisle has created this division in American politics.
But I think the most important work now is to remember what Fred Rogers mother used to say; "look for the helpers", and to be one. Many conscientious objectors during WW2 worked in hospitals and other places where they could follow their non-violent hearts but also support the good cause.
Thank you, Carrie and Parker…this episode was so powerful and for me, very necessary. You affirmed much of what I feel and I felt safe in this space to allow myself to fully recognize and embrace the hard emotions and realities I have been resisting.
Go with the flow...and all will be well! LOVE!
We live on a country road with only 5 neighboring houses. The houses are far enough apart that our interactions are usually just a wave as we walk or drive by. For many years, there was animosity with one neighbor in particular, who burned toxic garbage, drove too fast down the road, used live traps, without checking them often, and other. One year, filled with Christmas spirit I guess, I decided to host an afternoon holiday potluck just for the neighbors on the road. I wasn't sure whether we'd even find anything to talk about. They came at 4:00 and left and 11:30! It set the tone for later conversations about the problems that can arise among neighbors. More importantly, it set up a support network that has has been there as we all face "life"--- collectively: knee replacements, son's divorce, retirement, a car accident, lost keys, broken pipes, in addition to checking to see whether the coffee pot was left on, borrowing the proverbial cup of flour, or watching the house while a neighbor is away. I'm pretty sure our politics are VERY different, but we simply do NOT discuss them. It would be like a magic spell that none of us is willing to break, even by putting up a political sign. Not here--not on this country road where only the neighbors would see it--We are grateful for our neighbors as we all age in place. And we have the Christmas potluck every year--including carols sung around our piano. We even met out in the street in our lawn chairs during Covid. (Not many cars come down this road!)
Thanks Carrie and Parker, I always look forward to your wonderful conversations. Two items struck me as you spoke.
Observation 1 For Carrie… Thanks so much for your music. You said,”at the heart of a song, sometimes we recognise one another because we recognise joy or we recognise grief… at the centre of a song, sometimes we still se one another and we turn to one another and go, uh huh me too. And that, for me, I feel very, a certain kind of privilege with that because we don’t always see that in our media.” You’re too modest and you could have said, “never” instead of “don’t always”. Why? Because it requires presence and that is what struck me.
Your ‘privilege’ echoed with something Nick Cave said to Krista Tippett (On Being Podcast 23 Nov 2023) about his goal to ‘improve matters” by giving space for a ‘transcendent’ experience in his concerts…“I feel that, and it's not me in particular, but any musician, in fact, playing any kind of music, can do something to improve matters. There's that, and then there is, of course, the sort of transcendent element to the communal element, the sort of outpouring, intaking, the sort of circular thing that goes on with an audience of love. Yeah, the way we now know that music actually syncs up breath and heartbeats. (You mean communally) Yeah, that's right… that’s why I spend so much time right up the front with the audience, because I can see them better… it’s quite something to look into the face of a person that's having a transcendent experience is quite something, and especially en masse. And I find that, you know, each time I'm playing and doing a concert, I feel that I'm doing something to help rehabilitate the world, or it's a remedy for the world in some kind of way. And I don't mean that in a high blown kind of way. In fact, it to me is like a small act of kindness too, in the way that we have, that we all have the opportunity to do. But there is also a mysterious and transcendent element to music.” To be able to share the gift of music is to both at the same time offer a ‘mysterious and transcendental’ experience in a blind and deaf world, and do something ‘to help rehabilitate the world’. Both these effects of music require presence and I doubt they can be mediaized. Thank you for your willingness to share your gift.
Observation 2 For Parker… Of course Richard Rohr is right “everything belongs” - the only clothing for the soul divine is joy and woe woven fine (and it always is sewn with a silken thread of joy divine), you can’t have one (joy) without the other (woe)! BUT some things don’t belong & these things come from the unreal worlds which we have created. The fantasy world we create in social media and in which we think we live is an unreal world and this is not among the things that belong in reality. These worlds are turbocharged inventions of our desires and fantasies, a kind of gnostic platonistic imagined reality on steroids which appears real but has no life. When our kids live in the reality they go mad and bad, losing their connection with joy and woe of real life. Wisdom and discernment is sorely needed to help young people reenter and rejoice in the trials and tribulations of real world friends and meet face to face so called enemies (which in an unreal world are to be shot on sight). Deep fakes can only be known as fakes if we know the real.
These comments fit what I read years ago from a nun who advised exactly what Claire wrote. With humble curiosity probe the experiences that led to this belief.
I've been writing in my journal about this very thing after listening to the podcast today. Its been perplexing because we can't just ignore the gap. What I ended up with was something like Jerry Colonna writes about which is people seek love, safety, and belonging and their actions aim to find those three, especially when one or more is missing. Instead of hitting the issue at present head on, which only seems to bring further resistance and violence, what I'm drawn to at the moment is exploring what isn't giving safety for the other person. Often people find belonging in groups of similar views, but are those real? What did that belonging fill a hole of and what was previously missing? And of course love--which relates to the belonging as well. Another tough part though is how then do you foster those conversations to address these behind the issue questions, especially when the other side is violently opposed? I'll continue to turn to wonder there...
I usually respond from curiosity. What experiences did this person have that would lead them to this conclusion?
Yes, as Parker says, turning to wonder, considering the wider story, can be very helpful in holding difference.
Learning how to inquire about the wider story, how they came to their starting point, begins with a frank acknowledgement of my own ignorance of how they, as an individual, got where they are. From that humbled position, I can ask questions that are truly questions, and build that bridge between the other and myself.
Love what you have to say about not legitimizing harmful views and about what loving kindness looks like, Carrie.